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Forums > Catholic News, Discussion, History, & Culture > John XXIII's pectoral cross decorated with Masonic symbols?

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Jan 30, 2009 at 01:55 PM
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Long-standing suspicions regarding John XXIII’s links to Masonry were further aroused in 1977, fourteen years after his death. Of particular interest was an advertisement published in the USA, Boston Pilot Magazine, which was offering for sale replicas of John XXIII’s pectoral cross. The cross was decorated with several Masonic symbols and had been authorised for sale by Archbishop Capovilla of Loreto, Italy, with the backing of the Vatican.

Does anybody know where to find the picture of J23's pectoral cross? I tried googling it but couldn't find it.

WhollyRoaminCatholic

Registered: Oct 24, 2008
Posts: 1,998
Jan 30, 2009 at 01:57 PM
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Click the link for a large photo. Looks "clean" to me.

http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF0305/Hendrickson/Hendrickson02.jpg

edited to add: There's a lot of clamor about the Boston Pilot Magazine ad on all the usual websites. But no one produces the ad or a photo of the pectoral cross that they were selling or any proof that the "replicas" were faithful reproductions. _________________
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spasiisochrani
Registered: Jan 02, 2006
Posts: 2,022
Jan 30, 2009 at 02:39 PM
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I think this is what you're looking for:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cQ2xhpZfenk/SWjfMSjcA4I/
AAAAAAAAFkI/oiN_W_oizd0/s1600-h/pectoral+cross+ii.JPG

It appears to have representations of the three persons of the Trinity, and a triangle to represent the Trinity, which somebody has interpreted as a Masonic symbol.

I found it on this site:

http://orbiscatholicus.blogspot.com/2009/01/
what-nice-pectoral-cross-looks-like.html

WhollyRoaminCatholic

Registered: Oct 24, 2008
Posts: 1,998
Jan 30, 2009 at 02:45 PM
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Quote:

Originally Posted by spasiisochrani

I think this is what you're looking for:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cQ2xhpZfenk/SWjfMSjcA4I/
AAAAAAAAFkI/oiN_W_oizd0/s1600-h/pectoral+cross+ii.JPG

It appears to have representations of the three persons of the Trinity, and a triangle to represent the Trinity, which somebody has interpreted as a Masonic symbol.

I found it on this site:

http://orbiscatholicus.blogspot.com/2009/01/
what-nice-pectoral-cross-looks-like.html

Interesting, it doesn't match the one in the photo at all. The website says that it was his cross when he was "Patriarch of Venice", I guess he's entitled to get a new one when he was pope.

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The_Harlequin_King

Registered: Dec 05, 2008

Posts: 1,759

Jan 30, 2009 at 02:48 PM

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The all-seeing eye was a Catholic symbol long before the Masons ever used it. It's a pretty awesome symbol, too. I'm not going to let those old frat-boy losers keep it for themselves.

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Jan 30, 2009 at 02:49 PM

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Originally Posted by The_Harlequin_King

The all-seeing eye was a Catholic symbol long before the Masons ever used it.

Could you give the source for that?

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The_Harlequin_King

Registered: Dec 05, 2008

Posts: 1,759

Jan 30, 2009 at 03:04 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by luigi

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Harlequin_King

The all-seeing eye was a Catholic symbol long before the Masons ever used it.

Could you give the source for that?

There's an all-seeing eye at Aachen Cathedral, the resting place of Charlemagne.

You can also find it at the Church of St. Magdalene in Venice.

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Jan 30, 2009 at 03:06 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by luigi

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Harlequin_King

The all-seeing eye was a Catholic symbol long before the Masons ever used it.

Could you give the source for that?

Quick research yields that symbol is used by Christians, among others, for a long time (see images at bottom): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence

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Jan 30, 2009 at 03:09 PM

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Can we know for sure that the masons didn't put it there?

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Jan 30, 2009 at 03:10 PM

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If it coud be proven that the Catholic Church commonly used the symbol on pectoral crosses etc. in the 1950's that would tend to dispel the claim. However if that symbol was unique to John XXIII, suspiscion looms..

The_Harlequin_King

Registered: Dec 05, 2008

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Jan 30, 2009 at 03:10 PM

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It's also worth mentioning that this article posted on the Masonic Service Association of North America (a Masonic institution, duh) says that the all-seeing eye is not a Masonic symbol, but only commonly mistaken for one.

Quote:

Sadly, Masons are sometimes counted among the gullible who repeat the tall tale of the eye in the pyramid, often with a touch of pride. They may be guilty of nothing worse than innocently puffing the importance of their fraternity (as well as themselves), but they're guilty nonetheless. The time has come to state the truth plainly and simply!

The Great Seal of the United States is not a Masonic emblem, nor does it contain hidden Masonic symbols.

The details are there for anyone to check, who's willing to rely on historical fact, rather than hysterical fiction.

Benjamin Franklin was the only Mason on the first design committee, and his suggestions had no Masonic content.

None of the final designers of the seal were Masons.

The interpretation of the eye on the seal is subtly different from the interpretation used by Masons.

The eye in the pyramid is not nor has it ever been a Masonic symbol

And:

Quote:

The eye of Providence was part of the common cultural iconography of the 17th and 18th centuries. When placed in a triangle, the eye went beyond a general representation of God to a strongly Trinitarian statement. It was during this period that Masonic ritual and symbolism evolved; and it is not surprising that many symbols common to and understood by the general society made their way into Masonic ceremonies. Masons may have preferred the triangle because of the frequent use of the number 3 in their ceremonies: three degrees, three original grand masters, three principal officers, and so on. Eventually the all-seeing eye came to be used officially by Masons as a symbol for God, but this happened towards the end of the eighteenth century, after congress had adopted the seal.

A pyramid, whether incomplete or finished, however, has never been a Masonic symbol. It has no generally accepted symbolic meaning, except perhaps permanence or mystery. The combining of the eye of providence overlooking an unfinished pyramid is a uniquely American, not Masonic, icon, and must be interpreted as its designers intended. It has no Masonic context.

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devotedknuckles

Registered: Oct 06, 2008

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Jan 30, 2009 at 03:16 PM

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It is also in the cathedral of Teucan Mexico. I have seen it though sadly no picks

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devotedknuckles

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Jan 30, 2009 at 03:17 PM

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Also the swastika was a catholic Symbol too. still is creepy

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(Gloss. Cap. I. De Missa)

Jan 30, 2009 at 03:19 PM

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Quote:

It's also worth mentioning that this article posted on the Masonic Service Association of North America (a Masonic institution, duh) says that the all-seeing eye is not a Masonic symbol, but only commonly mistaken for one.

To quote such a statement is in my opinion either extraordinarily naive or quite disingenuous.

There is absolutely no doubt that the All-Seeing Eye is used as a symbol of Freemasonry.

One tiny example, which could be multiplied ad infinitum:

http://www.godf.org/foreign/uk/index_uk.html

Does not mean it has always been, in all cases, a masonic symbol? Not necessarily. However, seeing as it is viewed as such, it is a good reason for Catholic prelates not to use such a symbol. (interestingly, in one of my uncle's missals from the early 60s, there is an illustration of an all-seeing eye) The fact of the matter is that there are Freemasons on the inside and outside of the hierarchy trying to being the Church to ruin. That is totally unacceptable and tolerance of the situation must be brought to a permanent end.

Another thing - why should any Catholic take the word of the Freemasons on such a matter?

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