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General: DOES FATHER GOD (YHWH) TRAVEL IN TIME?
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From: BARILOCHENSE6999  (Original message) Sent: 08/02/2018 01:55

Does Father (God) Travel in Time?

 
 

What if Einstein Was Right About Time Travel!

“... the gate of heaven” was on earth!

Back Chapter 43 Preview: If Elohim (God) “travels in time” then certain occurrences in the Bible become easier for us, with our limited knowledge, to comprehend. If you believe that Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity essentially proves that “time travel” is possible, then you shouldn’t be surprised if it were to have a bearing on both history and prophecy. If you believe that Einstein was wrong and that even Yehovah(Jehovah) can’t traverse time, then please go back to another chapter. This chapter was written from the premise that the Creator of time has complete mastery of it, so if Einstein miscalculated—well then blame him for the deductions of this chapter. Nothing else in my books is dependent on time travel.

Missing Doctrines
INDEX

For at least the last one hundred years, the concept of time travel has tantalized the minds of many of us. I happen to easily fit into that category. A pbs.org article, for example, offers this enticement:

“Various researchers have proposed ways in which backward and forward time machines can be built that do not seem to violate any know laws of physics. Remember that the laws of physics tell us what is possible, not what is practical for humans at this point in time. The physics of time travel is still in its infancy. While all physicists today admit that time travel to the future is possible, many still believe time travel to the past will never be easily attainable. Don’t believe anyone who tells you that humans will never have efficient technology for backward and forward time travel. Accurately predicting future technology is nearly impossible, and history is filled with underestimates of technology:”

The following thought would aptly explain Yehovah’s statement that He “inhabits eternity”.

“Surprising as it may be to most non-scientists and even to some scientists, Albert Einstein concluded in his later years that the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. In 1952, in his book Relativity, in discussing Minkowski’s Space World interpretation of his theory of relativity, Einstein writes:

“Since there exists in this four dimensional structure [space-time] no longer any sections which represent ‘now’ objectively, the concepts of happening and becoming are indeed not completely suspended, but yet complicated. It appears therefore more natural to think of physical reality as a four dimensional existence, instead of, as hitherto, the evolution of a three dimensional existence.” (outside link)

So perhaps Yehovah doesn’t exactly travel in time anymore than we see the sun rise—since the earth is actually rising, but from our perspective the sun is rising. Another analogy is when a car approaches you on a highway—you only see where you are going while the approaching driver only sees where you have been. Time and space are a matter of perspective. Perhaps Yehovah travels to the location that He chooses to, and then chooses which vantage point, or points in “time” to view.

We’ve been designed to long for this “appropriate” perspective of “time” and “eternity”, but presently “people still can’t fathom” it.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has put a sense of eternity in people’s minds. But people still can’t fathom the work that Elohim has done from beginning to end. —The Gabriel Bible

Other mathematical geniuses have since expanded on Einstein’s realizations, but that is way beyond the scope of this chapter.

There are certainly times when true believers can disagree on whether or not a Bible verse should be taken literally. I don’t think that there should be many of these places, especially in regard to obedience. This has nothing to do with obedience, so I’m perfectly happy if you think that figurative explanations for some of the following passages were intended.

But just for fun let’s take some Scriptures literally that are traditionally taken to be anything but that.

The following verse is the first example of a verse that I take to be literal. It appears that Yehovah doesn’t actually “travel in time”—He INHABITS time! From wherever He is, He can exist in the past, the present and the future of that particular place, perhaps all at once!

Isaiah 57:15 The High and exalted One who inhabits eternity, whose name is Kadosh says: “I live in the the high and Kadosh Place, along with the One who is to be destroyed [root word crushed or broken] and humiliated in spirit, who will be returning to life the spirits of the crushed, and returning to life the consciousnesses of the crushed,

From the above verse we can see that:

1) The High and exalted One “inhabits eternity”.
2) He usually lives in “the high and kadosh place” (not everywhere at once).
3) And under certain circumstances we can live “with Him” in a “revived” state.

The primary meaning of “revive” using the hiphil verb stem (8687) is “to preserve alive, let live”. So under Yehovah’s umbrella, certain humans can be preserved alive and at least on some level experience what Yehovah is experiencing.

Yet the Bible never says that Yehovah exists EVERYWHERE at the same time. The concept of “omnipresence” is of pagan origin.

So Yehovah actually “dwells” in eternity. The Hebrew word for “inhabits” above is the same word translated as “dwell” in the same sentence. Yehovah said that He lives in a specific “place”. So Yehovah “inhabits” one place at a “time”.

Here is a closer look at the word “inhabits” using the appropriate (Qal) verb stem from the Online Bible Hebrew Lexicon:

07931 shakan (shaw-kan’)
a primitive root [apparently akin (by transmission) to 07901 through the idea of lodging]; TWOT-2387; v
AV-dwell 92, abide 8, place 7, remain 5, inhabit 4, rest 3, set 2, continue 1, dwellers 1, dwelling 1, misc 5; 129
1) to settle down, abide, dwell, tabernacle, reside
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to settle down to abide
1a2) to abide, dwell, reside

Furthermore, “eternity” in the Hebrew means past, present and future—just as it does in English.

Notice in the following statement from Yehovah Himself, for example, how He knows the future of the descendants of Abraham—an aspect of TIME, but when it comes to a location, a specific place in SPACE He must either rely on “reports” or “go ... and see” in Person!

Genesis 18:17-21 Yehovah asked, “Should I hide what I am about to do from Abraham? 18 since Abraham will certainly become an important and populous nation, and every nation on earth will be blessed thru him?19 I [the Son] have selected him to command his children and their families after him, to obey the way of Yehovah [the Father], by doing what is right and just, so that Yehovah will bring about for Abraham what He has promised him. 20 Yehovah said, “Because the outcries against Sodom and Gomorrah are so numerous, and because their sin is so very serious, 21 I’m going down now, and see if their behavior is as wicked as the reports that have come to Me. If not, I’ll know.

Note that the operative word in the following Scripture, “declaring” (Heb. nagad) is translated as “tell” 222 times in the KJV. So it is not saying that Yehovah is necessarily “causing” all of the events of eternity, rather His prophecies “tell” us the end results.

Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the events of antiquity, because I’m Elohim, and there is no other, I’m Elohim, and there’s no one like Me, 10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that haven’t been done yet. I say that My purposes will be established, and I’ll do the things I delight in,

This is not to imply that Yehovah doesn’t intervene—eliminating certain outcomes that are not to His liking, as He did in Sodom and Gomorrah. Yehovah can do anything He wants to:

Matthew 19:26 Yeshua (Jesus) looked at them intently and said, “It is impossible for people, but anything is possible with YHVH [Yehovah].”

The best minds of science, beginning in 1905 with Albert Einstein, have concluded that “time travel” is not only possible—it is a mathematical certainty.

So if Yehovah can travel in time (from our perspective), then can Yehovah make people travel in time as well? Does the Bible ever address that?

Yehovah’s (the Lord’s) Day

Was the envoy (apostle) John hallucinating, as some believe? Was he dreaming? The Bible says that he was “in the Spirit on Yehovah’s (the Lord’s) day”. It was the real thing—he lived in the future. He literally experienced the events of “the Day of the Lord”! The entire book of Revelation is a first hand narrative. Unlike Daniel, he did not take this lying down. Seven times he said “I saw”: Revelation 1:12; 1:17; 4:4; 5:1; 5:2; 6:1; 6:9.

Revelation 1:9-19 I John, your Friend and your partner in the tribulation and suffering that are ours in Yeshua Messiah, was on the island called Patmos, because of the Word of Aloha and the Testimony of Yeshua Messiah. 10 I was in the spirit realm on YHVH’s Day, and I heard a loud voice behind me like a shofar that said, 11 “Write what you are seeing in a document and send it to the seven assemblies: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”

12 I turned around to look at the voice that spoke to me, and as I turned I saw the seven gold menorahs, 13 and among the menorahs, someone, ‘perhaps’ the Human Son, wearing a robe down to His feet, and wearing a gold sash around His chest. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow. His eyes resembled flames of fire. 15 His feet were like refined brass, glowing in a furnace, and His voice was like the waves on the sea. 16 He had seven stars in His right hand and a sharp two edged sword came from His mouth. His face was like the sun shining full strength.

17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as tho dead. He laid His right hand on me and said “Don’t be afraid, I am the First and the Last, 18 the living One. I was dead, but look, I’m alive forevermore! Aw-main. And I have the keys of death and Sheol.

19 So record what you have already seen, the things that presently are, and the things that are going to happen in the future.

Here John is actually told to measure the end time third Temple, just prior to the Two Witnesses commission (v.3). Measuring the temple is described 29 times in Ezekiel 40-42. This would explain the previous verse (10:11): “John, you must prophesy again before many nations, and peoples, and princes, and kings”. He is in the company of the two witnesses, just like Elijah (Malachi 4:5-6).

Revelation 11:1-3 Then I, John, was given a measuring reed like a staff, and the messenger stood and said, “Get up and measure the Temple of YHVH and the altar and those who worship there. 2 But don’t measure the courtyard outside of the Temple. Leave it out, because it has been given to the heathens, and they’ll trample the kadosh city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 I’ll commission My Two Witnesses. They’ll prophesy for 1,260 days, wearing sackcloth.

Revelation clearly says that:

John saw the past: “things that you have seen”
John saw the present: “things that are”
John saw the future: “things that are to be in the future”

My brother told me that according to a very old family copy of Fox’s Book of Martyrs (that I couldn’t stomach reading as a teen), that John was never martyred. Here is an excerpt from an online copy:

“The “beloved disciple,” was brother to James the Great. The churches of Smyrna, Pergamos, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea, and Thyatira, were founded by him. From Ephesus he was ordered to be sent to Rome, where it is affirmed he was cast into a cauldron of boiling oil. He escaped by miracle, without injury. Domitian afterward banished him to the Isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation. Nerva, the successor of Domitian, recalled him. He was the only apostle who escaped a violent death.”

But that does not square with what Yeshua said!

Mark 10:35-39 James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to Him and asked, “Master, we want You to grant us whatever request we ask of You.” 36 He asked them, “What do you want Me to do for you?” 37 They replied, “Allow one of us to sit on Your right side and the other on Your left side in Your splendor.” 38 But He told them, “You don’t know what you’re asking for. Are you able to drink from the same cup that I drink from and be immersed with the same immersion that I’m immersed with?” 39 They told Him, “We are able”. So Yeshua told them, “You will drink the from cup that I drink from and you will be immersed with the same kind of immersion that I’m immersed with.

Could it be, as my brother said in our discussion of this topic, that John “was” martyred during the coming Great Tribulation?

Visions?

What about the use of the word “vision” in Revelation? Yes, the word “vision” appears once in Revelation:

Yet it could just as easily say:

Revelation 9:17 While I looked at the horses within view, and at those who rode them,...

The primary use of the word “vision” concerns the act of seeing in the sense of sight with the eyes!

At least one of Daniel’s visions appears to be much more than a simple dream because “the men who were with me ... ran away and hid themselves!”

Daniel 10:7 I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, because the men who were with me simply couldn’t see it. But they were overcome with trembling, and they ran away and hid themselves.

Occasionally “vision” does utilize the figurative usage, as is done in English. Here is an example:

Acts 12:9 He [Peter] followed him out of the prison, not realizing that what had been done by the spiritmessenger was a reality. He thought he was seeing a vision.

The Fifth Coming of Elijah!

ELIJAH THE TISHBITE has been well entitled ‘the grandest and the most romantic character that Israel ever produced.’ Certainly there is no personage in the [Tanak] whose career is more vividly portrayed, or who exercises on us a more remarkable fascination. His rare, sudden, and brief appearances, his undaunted courage and fiery zeal, the brilliancy of his triumphs, the pathos of his despondency, the glory of his departure, and the calm beauty of his reappearance on the Mount of Transfiguration, throw such a halo of brightness around him as is equaled by none of his compeers in the sacred story. The ignorance in which we are left of the circumstances and antecedents of the man who did and who suffered so much, doubtless contributes to enhance our interest in the story and the character. ‘Elijah the Tishbite of the inhabitants of Gilead,’ is literally all that is given us to know of his parentage and locality. It is in remarkable contrast to the detail with which the genealogies of other prophets and leaders of Israel are stated. Where the place—if it was a place—lay, which gave him this appellation we know not, nor are we likely to know. It is not again found in the bible, nor has any name answering to it been discovered since.”

Elijah didn’t die and go to heaven in ancient Israel—he simply vanished into the sky! Could he have arrived just as suddenly?

2 Kings 2:11-12 As they were walking along and talking, ‘suddenly’ a fiery chariot with fiery horses appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up into the sky  in a tornado! 12 Elisha saw it, and yelled, “My father, my father, the chariot and horsemen of Israel!” When he couldn’t see him anymore, he latched onto his own clothes and tore them into two pieces.

This “fiery” mode of transportation was not an isolated incident; in fact Yehovah has a fleet of such chariots:

Isaiah 66:15 Yehovah will come with fire, and His chariots will be like a tornado! He will return with fierce anger, He will punish them with flames of fire.

But what happened to Elijah after his flight? Did Elijah go to pluck on harps in heaven, or does the Bible say that he was to appear in the future? I hope to show that he made four other appearances!

#1 Elijah the Tishbite
#2 Elijah the letter sender
#3 Elijah as “John the Immerser”
#4 Elijah the transfigured
#5 Elijah “before the great and terrible Day of Yehovah”

I believe that all of these Elijahs are the same person who lived/will live at different points in time. Put another way, if we believe the Bible literally, then we would have to look very hard NOT to believe that Elijah (known in the 1st century as John the Immerser) was:

A) born just prior to when Yeshua was
B) traveled back in time twice
C) appeared at the transfiguration
D) will appear again just prior to the Day of Yehovah (the “Lord”)

Let’s check out #4 first because it is the most represented in the Bible:

There are three accounts of the “transfiguration”. This event was truly astonishing and should not be dismissed as a curiosity. In each account the “won’t experience death” comment is followed six days later by a metamorphosiscomment. Despite the inconsistency of the person who inserted the chapter breaks, these two events are very connected.

This was no vision. In fact Peter plainly stated much later in reference to the transfiguration that they had not fallen for any “fables”. He said that the three of them “were eyewitnesses” and that they also “heard the same voice come out of heaven”—so they were also “earwitnesses”!

2 Peter 1:16-18 because we didn’t ‘create’ artfully framed fables when we told you about the power and arrival of our Master Yeshua Messiah—we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 When He received honor and praise from YHVH the Father, a voice came to Him from the splendid beauty of His Majesty that said, “This is the Son I love very much, I’m delighted with Him.” 18 We personally heard the same voice from Heaven as He heard it, while we were with Him on the kadosh mountain.

 

The key to understanding what actually happened is that Yeshua was literally metamorphosed [Gr. metamorphoo]—“changed into another form”—and that form was light!

With that metamorphosis in mind let’s read the accounts:

Matthew 16:28-17:3 I am certain that some of you who are standing here won’t die until you have seen the Human Son coming with [or “in”] His Kingdom!” Chapter 17:1-3 Six days later, Yeshua (Jesus) took Cephas, James, and his brother John and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 Yeshua underwent a supernatural metamorphosis [Gr. metamorphoo] in front of them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothing became as white as light. 3 Then Moses and Elijah just appeared and began talking with Yeshua!

Mark 9:1-4 He told them, “I am certain that there are some people standing here who won’t die until they see the Kingdom of YHVH arrive with immense power.” 2 Six days later, Yeshua took Cephas and James and John and led them to a high mountain where He underwent a metamorphosis [Gr. metamorphoo] right in front of them! 3 His clothes glistened and became dazzling white, like snow, whiter than people on earth could ever make them! 4 Then Moses and Elijah showed up and we could see them talking with Yeshua!

Luke 9:27-33 I tell you with absolute certainty that some of you standing here won’t experience death until you see the Kingdom of YHVH with your own eyes. 28 About eight days after these discourses, Yeshua took Simon and James and John, and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 While He prayed, the appearance of His face was changed, and His clothing became white and radiant. 30 Suddenly there were two men talking with Him. They were Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in an exalted state. They were talking about His departure that was to take place in Jerusalem. 32 Simon and those with him were overcome with drowsiness and barely awake when they saw His splendor, and the two men who stood with Him. 33 As they were about to leave Him, Simon said to Yeshua, “Master, it is delightful for us to be here. Let’s make three booths here, one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” But he wasn’t aware of what he was saying [because he was “barely awake”].

Are there some very old people who never experienced death? Are there some men who actually saw “the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom”. None of these accounts indicate that the “transfiguration” was a “vision”. All represent the information as factual—so why the unbelief? “Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Yeshua”. This was no parlor trick! Notice that they were “awake” when they saw Yeshua in His spirit form, as well as when they saw “Moses and Elijah”. Luke’s account might seemingly indicate that Peter was a bit “rattled” after the event, by his tabernacles comment, but perhaps Peter perceived a Feast of Tabernacles connection to this occurrence, but let’s go on.



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Reply  Message 137 of 151 on the subject 
From: BARILOCHENSE6999 Sent: 26/02/2022 02:11
SANTA ELENA ES LA MADRE DE CONSTANTINO ¿CASUALIDAD O CAUSALIDAD? (NEXO 911)
TODOS LOS CAMINOS CONDUCEN A ROMA.

Santa Elena, Madre de Constantino – 18 de Agosto

Santa Elena, madre del emperador Constantino, tuvo un interés singular en ayudar a los pobres y acudía a la iglesia piadosamente confundida entre los fieles. 

Santo del día — 18/08/2021

En un mesón propiedad de sus padres en Daprasano (Nicomedia) nació pobre en el seno de una familia pagana. Allí pudo, en su juventud, contemplar los efectos de las persecuciones mandadas desde Roma: vió a los cristianos que eran tomados presos y metidos en las cárceles de donde salían para ser atormentados cruelmente, quemados vivos o arrojados a las fieras. Nunca lo entendió; ella conocía a algunos de ellos y alguna de las cristianas muertas fueron de sus amigas ¿qué mal hacían para merecer la muerte? A su entender, sólo podía asegurar que eran personas excelentes.

San Ambrosio, que vivió en época inmediatamente posterior, la describe como una mujer privilegiada en dones naturales y en nobleza de corazón. Y así debía ser cuando se enamoró de ella Constancio, el que lleva el sobrenombre de Cloro por el color pálido de su tez, general valeroso y prefecto del pretorio durante Maximiano. Tenía Elena 23 años al contraer matrimonio. En Naïsus (Dardania) les nació, el 27 de febrero del 274, el hijo que llegaría a ser César de Maximiano como Galerio lo fue de Diocleciano.

Pero no todo fueron alegrías. Elena fue repudiada por motivos políticos en el 292 para poder casarse Constancio con la hijastra de Maximiano y llegar a establecer así el parentesco imprescindible entre los miembros de la tetrarquía. Le costó mucho saberse pospuesta al deseo de poder de su marido, pero esto lo aceptó mejor que el hecho de verse separada de su hijo Constantino que pasó a educarse en el palacio junto a su padre y donde se reveló como un fantástico organizador y estratega.

Muerto Constancio Cloro en el 306, Constantino decide llevarse a su madre a vivir con él a la corte de Tréveris. En esta época aún no hay certeza histórica de que su madre fuera cristiana. Sí, cuando -por testimonio de Eusebio de Cesarea- aparezca sobre el sol el signo de la cruz con motivo de la batalla de Saxa Rubra y la leyenda "con este signo vencerás" que dio el triunfo a Constantino y lo hizo único Emperador de Roma, en el 312.

Aunque el emperador retrasará su bautismo hasta la misma muerte, es complaciente con la condición de cristiana que tiene su madre que daba sonados ejemplos de humildad y caridad. Incluso parece descubrirse la influencia materna tras el Edicto de Milán que prohibía la persecución de los cristianos y los edictos posteriores que terminan vetando el culto a los dioses lares. Agasaja a su madre haciéndola Augusta, acuña monedas con su efigie y le facilita levantar iglesias.

En el 326 Elena está con su hijo en Bizancio, a orillas del Bósforo. Aunque se aproxima ya a los setenta años alienta en su espíritu un deseo altamente repensado y nunca confesado, pero que cada día crece y toma fuerza en su alma; anhela ver, tocar, palpar y venerar el sagrado leño donde Cristo entregó su vida por todos los hombres. Organiza un viaje a los Santos Lugares en cuyo relato se mezclan todos los elementos imaginables pertenecientes al mundo de la fábula por tratarse del desplazamiento de la primera dama del Imperio a los humildes a lejanos lugares donde nació, vivió, sufrió y resucitó el Redentor. Pero aparte de todo lo que de fantástico pueda haber en los relatos, fuentes suficientemente atendibles como Crisóstomo, Ambrosio, Paulino de Nola y Sulpicio Severo refieren que se dedicó a una afanosa búsqueda de la Santa Cruz con resultados negativos entre los cristianos que no saben dar respuesta satisfactoria a sus pesquisas. Sintiéndose frustrada, pasa a indagar entre los judíos hasta encontrar a un tal Judas que le revela el secreto rigurosamente guardado entre una facción de ellos que, para privar a los cristianos de su símbolo, decidieron arrojar a un pozo las tres cruces del Calvario y lo cegaron luego con tierra.

Las excavaciones resultaron con éxito. Aparecieron las tres cruces con gran júbilo de Elena. Sacadas a la luz, sólo resta ahora la grave dificultad de llegar a determinar aquella en la que estuvo clavado Jesús. Relatan que el obispo Demetrio tuvo la idea de organizar una procesión solemne, con toda la veneración que el asunto requería, rezando plegarias y cantando salmodias, para poner sobre las cruces descubiertas el cuerpo de una cristiana moribunda por si Dios quisiera mostrar la Vera Cruz. El milagro se produjo al ser colocada en sus parihuelas sobre la tercera de las cruces la pobre enferma que recuperó milagrosamente la salud.

Tres partes mandó hacer Elena de la Cruz. Una se trasladó a Constantinopla, otra quedó en Jerusalén y la tercera llegó a Roma donde se conserva y venera en la iglesia de la Santa Cruz de Jerusalén.

No han faltado autores que atribuyan a la fábula el hecho de la invención por Elena basándose principalmente en que no hay noticia expresa de tamaño acontecimiento hasta un siglo después. Ciertamente es así, pero lo resuelven otros estudiosos afirmando que la fuente histórica que relata los acontecimientos es el historiador contemporáneo Eusebio de Cesarea al que en su Vita Constantini sólo le interesan los acontecimientos realizados por Constantino, bien porque sigue los cánones de la historia contemporánea, o quizá porque sólo le interesa adular a su anfitrión.

Murió Elena sin que sepamos el sitio ni la fecha. Su hijo Constantino dispuso trasladar sus restos con gran solemnidad a la Ciudad Eterna y parte de ellos se conservan en la iglesia Ara Coeli, dedicada a Santa Elena, la mujer que dejó testimonio tangible y visible en unos maderos del paso salvador por la tierra de Jesús, el Hijo de Dios encarnado.

 
 
 
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EspacioAdventista.Org - ELENA WHITE Y EL 666 Uno de los argumentos  católicos utilizados desde hace muchos años para desviar las pruebas que  señalan que el sistema papal tiene el numero de la

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Hoy el santoral recuerda a Santa Elena - MUNDO RURAL WEB

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Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and information run 3 it has greatly aided me in my job and personal life.
 

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The Ark of the Covenant & The Great Pyramid of Egypt | Ancient Architects -  YouTube | Pyramids, Life in ancient egypt, The covenant

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Resultado de imagen para PI=4/radical(PHI, the golden ratio = 1.61803399(...)) = 3.14460550981492(...) !!!
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The BOOK Of PHI, vol 8: True Value Of Pi = JainPi = 3.144... - Jain 108
 
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Artist's Kaaba 'Cube' Elicits Controversy

German sculptor Gregor Schneider is having trouble finding a venue for a recent work, a black cube resembling a Muslim holy site. Is that because it is a security risk, a political minefield or just bad art?

 
An enhanced photo by the artist shows how 'Cube' would look in Venice

An enhanced photo by the artist shows how 'Cube' would look in Venice

Gregor Schneider has had the installation of his work "Cube" turned down for a second time.

Kaaba in Mekka

The Kaaba in Mecca, surrounded by pilgrims

The first rejection came last summer, from the city of Venice. The artist, who had secured the Venice Biennial art fair's Golden Lion prize for Germany in 2001, developed "Cube" for this year's show. He had planned to install the work -- a six-by-six-by-six meter black stone cube -- in Venice's landmark piazza, St. Mark's Square.

Fear of terrorism

But city officials wouldn't permit the installation, saying it violated historic preservation rules. A reasonable enough argument, but many observers felt another reason for the decision was more likely: "Cube" unmistakeably evokes the Kaaba, the black square building at the heart of Mecca that is the holiest site in Islam.

St. Mark's Square is already high on some lists of possible terror targets; the city feared such a provocative artwork, prominently displayed, could anger Muslim groups.

Schneider proposed setting the work in the plaza in front of Berlin's contemporary art museum Hamburger Bahnhof, but that plan, too, appears to have been given the ax. This week, the museum's General Director, Peter Klaus Schuster, turned down "Cube Berlin 2006" saying the work is only suited for its original destination: St. Mark's Square.

Hamburger Bahnhof Berlin

The Hamburger Bahnhof museum in Berlin hasn't made a final decision

The artist contested Hamburger Bahnhof's rejection. According to reports in the German press, he said the work was not developed for any one site in particular, and claimed it evokes the "black square" paintings of 20th century artist Kasimir Malevich as much as it does the Kaaba.

Museum's role questioned

When Venice rejected "Cube" last summer, the German art world reacted strongly, calling the move political censure and warning that artistic expression is being compromised. Even the Central Council of Muslims in Germany also spoke out against the decision, saying such moves serve to squelch discussion about Islam.

But while the Venice call was understandable, the decision by the Hamburger Bahnhof appears to be less so, observers say. Contemporary art museums are not usually in the business of avoiding controversy, they note. The Hamburger Bahnhof exhibited the controversial Flick collection despite heavy criticism about the Nazi roots of its funding, they argued. Would the cube be any more controversial? Or is it, as the sculptor Schneider suggests, a fact that fear of terror is working to suppress artistic freedom from within?

Plakate gegen Flick Ausstellung

The Flick exhibit brought protest --the owner's Nazi past was at issue

"How should an abstract cube look, in material, proportion, and size? … When does its association with the Kaaba begin, at what point can you talk about the origin of the term and the origin of the form?", Schneider wrote to the Hamburger Bahnhof administration.

But while some cultural critics are attacking art administrators for their weakness, others are attacking the art itself. The German newspaper tageszeitung implied that the reference to Islam was a publicity stunt, and that by offering to move it to Berlin, the artist lost his credibility.

"The cube is nothing special. Only its association with the Kaaba in Mecca and the original installation site lent it an explosive air, and brought the artist -- who, it must be said, has had little publicity of late -- back into the public eye," the paper wrote Wednesday.

It went on to say that the sculpture stood for the "Disneyfication of the world, the global Las Vegas syndrome."

While Hamburger Bahnhof's Schuster turned the sculpture down, the museum's response isn't final. Museum curator Eugen Blume wrote on Thursday that the discussion hasn't been finalized; the Kaaba-like "Cube" may yet come to Berlin. And either way, Sculptor Schneider has found his way back into the public eye.
https://www.dw.com/en/artists-kaaba-cube-elicits-controversy/a-1810259

Reply  Message 150 of 151 on the subject 
From: BARILOCHENSE6999 Sent: 14/07/2022 00:53
De Alcatraz al Golden Gate: Todo lo que puedes disfrutar en San Francisco
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